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	<title>Comments on: Annotations to &#8220;Over Games&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/</link>
	<description>Writer, game designer, filmmaker.</description>
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		<title>By: Pretentiousness! and other irritants &#171; Jonas Kyratzes</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-5823</link>
		<dc:creator>Pretentiousness! and other irritants &#171; Jonas Kyratzes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 12:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-5823</guid>
		<description>[...] is my most central objection to the likes of Harold Bloom and Theodor Adorno, and the reason I react so strongly to Tale of Tales&#8217; pronouncements. I despise pretentiousness, and any time I am forced to employ anything that resembles [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is my most central objection to the likes of Harold Bloom and Theodor Adorno, and the reason I react so strongly to Tale of Tales&#8217; pronouncements. I despise pretentiousness, and any time I am forced to employ anything that resembles [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-3755</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-3755</guid>
		<description>Well, I can&#039;t help but be appalled by their words: particularly because they are so intent on telling everyone what &lt;i&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; art, and because they recycle some truly ignorant and reactionary arguments - i.e. &quot;the humanist machine.&quot;

Perhaps I&#039;m taking them too seriously, but I honestly, deeply, truly love this medium. I love games, I love what they are and what they can be. I&#039;ve spent the last ten years making games based on the belief that games are art. I&#039;ve tried letting go of games as a form of expression a million times, and I can&#039;t, because it&#039;s such a rich medium with so much potential, and because truly amazing works are created in it on a regular basis that inspire me and make me happy. So I cannot help but do as that last Blake quote says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I can&#8217;t help but be appalled by their words: particularly because they are so intent on telling everyone what <i>isn&#8217;t</i> art, and because they recycle some truly ignorant and reactionary arguments &#8211; i.e. &#8220;the humanist machine.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m taking them too seriously, but I honestly, deeply, truly love this medium. I love games, I love what they are and what they can be. I&#8217;ve spent the last ten years making games based on the belief that games are art. I&#8217;ve tried letting go of games as a form of expression a million times, and I can&#8217;t, because it&#8217;s such a rich medium with so much potential, and because truly amazing works are created in it on a regular basis that inspire me and make me happy. So I cannot help but do as that last Blake quote says.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-3749</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-3749</guid>
		<description>Ouch.  Over Games was indeed full of bold statements that can&#039;t really be backed up, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s purpose was ever to make a coherent argument.  It works well as list of the thoughts that drive Tale of Tales and as such, the vagueness, contradictions, and unfair generalizations are to be expected and shouldn&#039;t be taken too seriously. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch.  Over Games was indeed full of bold statements that can&#8217;t really be backed up, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s purpose was ever to make a coherent argument.  It works well as list of the thoughts that drive Tale of Tales and as such, the vagueness, contradictions, and unfair generalizations are to be expected and shouldn&#8217;t be taken too seriously. <img src='http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>No. That mistake does not exist, and to imply that it did at one point exist would contradict the party line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. That mistake does not exist, and to imply that it did at one point exist would contradict the party line.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Roda</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1895</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Roda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1895</guid>
		<description>I mean, in that quote, you meant to say that it does NOT mean humanity has no value, but you instead said that it DOES mean that humanity has no value.
Therefore, you have a mistake to correct, so that people won&#039;t point and laugh at you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean, in that quote, you meant to say that it does NOT mean humanity has no value, but you instead said that it DOES mean that humanity has no value.<br />
Therefore, you have a mistake to correct, so that people won&#8217;t point and laugh at you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Error alert! Error alert! Sound the alarms! Run around in circles, spewing out screams of incoherent babble! Panic!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t know what you mean. The politburo has not approved any errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Error alert! Error alert! Sound the alarms! Run around in circles, spewing out screams of incoherent babble! Panic!</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what you mean. The politburo has not approved any errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Roda</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1893</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Roda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1893</guid>
		<description>&quot;How is it dehumanizing to believe that the Earth revolves around the sun and we’re descended from other lifeforms? Sure, science has shown us we are a tiny part of the universe, but that [{(does mean there is no value in humanity)}]. Science has also shown us that life is rare and precious and should be valued above all else.&quot;
Error alert! Error alert! Sound the alarms! Run around in circles, spewing out screams of incoherent babble! Panic!
In other news, you have written a very long, yet awesome and clever post. Here, have a glob of edible glow-in-the-dark radioactive waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How is it dehumanizing to believe that the Earth revolves around the sun and we’re descended from other lifeforms? Sure, science has shown us we are a tiny part of the universe, but that [{(does mean there is no value in humanity)}]. Science has also shown us that life is rare and precious and should be valued above all else.&#8221;<br />
Error alert! Error alert! Sound the alarms! Run around in circles, spewing out screams of incoherent babble! Panic!<br />
In other news, you have written a very long, yet awesome and clever post. Here, have a glob of edible glow-in-the-dark radioactive waste.</p>
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		<title>By: Harrith</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1887</link>
		<dc:creator>Harrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1887</guid>
		<description>I read that essay (or presentation or whatever) and you&#039;ve said pretty much everything I thought and more, and with examples.

One thing though, which I think is probably linked to the fact that they appear to be strossing somewhat, is that the paragraph with &quot;No longer will you make us die just because we missed a jump&quot; leads me to believe that they probably just aren&#039;t that good at platformers, and maybe they&#039;re not that good at video games in general, and that &quot;figuring out what they didn&#039;t like about games&quot; mainly involved listing things they found difficult about the probably few games they&#039;ve played.

As for the &quot;weird kind of joy&quot; that comes at &quot;the end of the pain&quot;, isn&#039;t that just completing a difficult game? I played Mega Man 3 on an emulator recently and the second-to-last boss is massively difficult, but when I beat it and went on to beat the final boss (which is countless times easier) I was happy to be able to say that I managed it (with save states, admittedly). It was like I was caught in an awkward, almost-certain death situation, and coming out alive was a massive achievement. Obviously, in reality it&#039;s a good thing to try to prevent those sorts of situations, but video games give the opportunity to emulate them with nothing resembling a real threat, and some people like that level of challenge. Clearly, these people don&#039;t, and they appear to feel that video games that don&#039;t have challenge don&#039;t exist, meaning either they&#039;re so bad at playing video games that they should probably just find something else to do, or they&#039;re strossing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read that essay (or presentation or whatever) and you&#8217;ve said pretty much everything I thought and more, and with examples.</p>
<p>One thing though, which I think is probably linked to the fact that they appear to be strossing somewhat, is that the paragraph with &#8220;No longer will you make us die just because we missed a jump&#8221; leads me to believe that they probably just aren&#8217;t that good at platformers, and maybe they&#8217;re not that good at video games in general, and that &#8220;figuring out what they didn&#8217;t like about games&#8221; mainly involved listing things they found difficult about the probably few games they&#8217;ve played.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;weird kind of joy&#8221; that comes at &#8220;the end of the pain&#8221;, isn&#8217;t that just completing a difficult game? I played Mega Man 3 on an emulator recently and the second-to-last boss is massively difficult, but when I beat it and went on to beat the final boss (which is countless times easier) I was happy to be able to say that I managed it (with save states, admittedly). It was like I was caught in an awkward, almost-certain death situation, and coming out alive was a massive achievement. Obviously, in reality it&#8217;s a good thing to try to prevent those sorts of situations, but video games give the opportunity to emulate them with nothing resembling a real threat, and some people like that level of challenge. Clearly, these people don&#8217;t, and they appear to feel that video games that don&#8217;t have challenge don&#8217;t exist, meaning either they&#8217;re so bad at playing video games that they should probably just find something else to do, or they&#8217;re strossing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1883</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1883</guid>
		<description>The people who wrote that need to get over themselves.  
Also... kudos on bringing up The Longest Journey. Awesome title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people who wrote that need to get over themselves.<br />
Also&#8230; kudos on bringing up The Longest Journey. Awesome title.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Weir</title>
		<link>http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2010/02/10/annotations-to-over-games/comment-page-1/#comment-1881</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=1149#comment-1881</guid>
		<description>I love the passion and a lot of the style behind Tale of Tales&#039;s work.  Endless Forest was brilliant, and The Path had a whole lot of awesome held down by slightly-shoddy implementation.

Their problem isn&#039;t with talent; it&#039;s with theory.  They&#039;re the classic artists who can make art much better than they can talk about art.  The more I read of their essays on games, the more I think they don&#039;t understand intellectually the medium they seem to understand instinctively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the passion and a lot of the style behind Tale of Tales&#8217;s work.  Endless Forest was brilliant, and The Path had a whole lot of awesome held down by slightly-shoddy implementation.</p>
<p>Their problem isn&#8217;t with talent; it&#8217;s with theory.  They&#8217;re the classic artists who can make art much better than they can talk about art.  The more I read of their essays on games, the more I think they don&#8217;t understand intellectually the medium they seem to understand instinctively.</p>
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